[Calendula-devel] Architecture Thoughts: J2EE vs Python

[Bill Bell]

On 1 Apr 2004 at 17:41, Tom Panzarella wrote:

> Yes, J2EE is a more robust framework for building distributed object
> oriented applications than anything Python has to offer.

Wouldn't be a bit surprised, given what I've seen and experienced in the Python 
world.

>  I'm not trying to diss Python at all, I just prefer to use a hammer to
> bang in a nail and a fork to eat my food unless it is soup in which
> case I prefer a spoon.  If that analogy makes any sense, what I'm
> saying is Java/J2EE IS a better choice ...

I've probably said this before. However, if I'm going to remain as a member of this 
team you'd all better get used to repetition. ;o)

To me this debate is partly about whether we should use a woolly mammoth to crack 
a walnut. It seems to me that there are numerous issues to explore, and that we 
should do that work in the simplest possible setting. 

Which is probably neither Zope nor J2EE.
 
> One thing that Java/J2EE lends itself to ... is the effective use of
> design patterns and a community willing to share and document them in a
> standard format. 

Since this is, to some extent and unfortunately, about Java/J2EE vs Python, I really 
need to mention that much of the discussion on the "main" Python list has often been 
couched in terms of design patterns, admittedly without including some of the 
patterns supported by J2EE. Patterns can be economically and readably expressed 
in Python code, as Tom might very well agree.

(Standard doc formats?: Oh, well, one can't have everything.)
 
> .. if you are just entering the J2EE world, it's not something you are
> going to just pick up. 

Likewise, Zope. There would be lots of preparatory work ahead for some of us, either 
way.

> ... the first real hurdle I see developers who come from scripting
> environments have to get over is the fact that they actually have to
> compile their code, run unit tests ... 

I daresay that a good few developers that use compiled languages are really just 
"scripting". AFAIK this issue has nothing much to do with whether the project 
chooses Python or J2EE or Java. It has to do with the project team's expectations. 
We all know that Python now comes with unit testing "out of the box", right? Why not 
simply stipulate that--no matter the architecture or language--we'll all follow that 
discipline--among others. (And, incidentally, as a Python bigot, I should probably not 
mention that the Python module was adapted from Beck's for Java.)

Bill